Ep 95. Smart Retirement Strategies and increased Social Security benefits based on an Ex-Spouse

Unlock the secrets to a more robust retirement income as we join forces with Lynn Toomey, CEO of Her Retirement to talk about retirement planning for midlife women! With Lynn's guidance, we expose an often-overlooked benefit for midlife women: the potential for women to claim Social Security benefits based on an ex-spouse's record. This episode is full of wisdom, revealing the eligibility quirks and strategic moves needed to bolster your financial security as you consider ALL your options for retirement.

This conversation is a roadmap for navigating the complex terrain of Social Security benefits and beyond. We tackle the big questions, like when to claim benefits to maximize your retirement income, and the little-known details, such as the impact of post-retirement work on your Social Security. With wit and clarity, Lynn helps us to construct decision trees—a tool as crucial for planning your financial future as a compass is for steering a ship.

Finally, we address the stormy seas of ageism in the workplace—a reality that can capsize careers unexpectedly and affect the best laid retirement plans. But fear not, we discuss  preparation and resilience, discussing continual upskilling, networking, and the benefits of having a solid financial plan.  As our conversation with Lynn wraps up, she shares her infectious optimism, reminding us that with the right plan and a dash of humor, retirement can be a journey to look forward to rather than a destination to fear.

Obsessions:
Tish: Piezano Pizza Oven
Ellen: Kut white demin jacket

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Website: www.thepositivelymidlifepodcast.com
Email: ellen@positivelymidlifepodcast.com 

By listening to this podcast you agree not to use this podcast as medical advice to treat any medical condition in either yourself or others, including but not limited to patients that you are treating . Consult your own physician for any medical issues that you may be having. The  Positively Midlife Podcast is presented solely for general informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only.   Not a single word is meant to be construed as legal, financial, tax or any other kind of advice.  Consult your own financial professionals. 

Transcript

Ellen: 0:21

Welcome back to the Positively Midlife podcast, and today I want to delve into a very little known realm of social security benefits, specifically how individuals can claim benefits based on an ex-spouse, and we have invited our guest, lynn Tomi, to join us today.

Tish: 0:45

We will explore the eligibility criteria, application process, some potential benefits and really those key considerations so we can help you listeners maximize benefits.

Ellen: 0:58

I know when I have spoken to other people approaching their 60s, right. So we start thinking about social security benefits and this benefit is based on whoever was the higher earner with an ex-spouse and we're going to go through very specifics because there's formulas and it's 50% of this one and stuff like that. But if you are in the situation where your spouse earns significantly more than you did, this is an area that you really need to pay attention a lot to.

Tish: 1:32

You know, tish, I remember last year when I first brought this up to you, right? My sister-in-law had been on TikTok of all places and she sent me the TikTok. I wasn't even on TikTok but she was like, hey, maybe you need to check this out, ellen. I knew nothing about it and thought I had found gold.

Tish: 1:52

Hit pager with this in my personal situation right, so I think it's important for us to share the information, as there are a lot of women who don't know about this. People can use some extra funds heading into retirement, and I think that Lynn is going to share some other interesting things with us as well. But before we get to meeting Lynn and talking about this fascinating and relevant subject, let's get to our obsessions. Tish, you know I love this part of the show. What do you have for me this week?

Ellen: 2:25

Well this obsession really came out of. I have been just shocked about how expensive pizza night is right, and I don't even know how families can even afford to go get pizzas for their whole family. I mean, they're up to $25 a pizza, it seems. So my obsession this week is called Pizzano Founder Top Pizza Oven. It only sells for $115, which sounds like a lot for an appliance, but if you think of each pizza costing $25 each, this way you can make your own. The pizza oven can get up to 800 degrees, so it's just like a brick oven pizza consistency with the crust right and you can put whatever you want on it. You can make a bigger one or smaller one, and it really cooks up quite quickly. So that is my obsession this week.

Tish: 3:19

Okay, a couple things. One I love the name, the Pizzano. I know, all right, super cute, right, and you know me having three boys that are now young men. They can each one of them can eat a whole extra large pizza by himself. So I get that pizza night is not what it once was. It is into the hundreds if you have three big boys like me so. I will definitely be checking out the Pizzano.

Ellen: 3:46

Yes. What about you, Ellen? What is your obsession for this week?

Tish: 3:49

Well, you know, it cracks me up why or how our obsessions can be so different. I always think we're going to show up one day, tish, and have the same obsession, have the same.

Ellen: 3:57

We never, we're not even close.

Tish: 3:59

Not even close. I am obsessed with a white denim jean jacket because it is spring here in Northern California and I love jean jackets, so having a white one. You know I don't like wearing jeans with a jean jacket.

Ellen: 4:14

So I don't know.

Tish: 4:16

You're always looking for that kind of ying to the yang, and having a white denim jacket is just the best for the summer, for the spring and the summer. So I got mine out, yay. And actually wore it yesterday, so I am obsessed with a white denim jean jacket right now.

Ellen: 4:36

You may need to post a picture on our website. I will, oh, do that.

Tish: 4:40

I'll post a photo.

Ellen: 4:44

Well, today I want to welcome our guest, who is a financial planner, retirement mentor, speaker, author, podcast host and educator, and, lynn, it is so great to have you on our podcast today to talk about this really important subject, especially to a lot of women.

Lynn: 5:04

Thank you, thanks for having me, tish and Alan, can you tell us a little bit about yourself? Oh, boy, a little bit. If my mom was here, she could do a really good job of talking about me.

Lynn: 5:17

She's one of her favorite subjects. I'm the only girl of three older brothers, so I got some of the spotlight. But I spent a good amount of my career in high technology in a man's world doing marketing. And then I met my significant other who is a financial advisor. He's been in the financial advising space for like 35 years and he said oh, marketing, I need marketing. Do you want to come do some volunteer work for me? Anyway, I said, well, I don't want to be a volunteer, but we'll rebrand your company to focus on retirement planning. A lot of his clients were getting older and had a lot of questions about retirement. So about 12 years ago we rebranded the company. We went in 50-50 as partners and I still co-own that practice.

Lynn: 6:07

But I'm not really active in the practice, mainly because a few years back, right before COVID, we decided I had the idea to teach a class to women and we called the class her retirement. It was at a local college and university, because that's what we continue to do now online we teach a course called Retirement Power Hours Together. But I said let's do an all-woman class because I started seeing so much information about women and their risks, the gaps and their opportunities as they transition into retirement One of the best classes we ever had. So I quickly reserved the URL, not knowing what I was going to do with it. Then COVID happened and everybody knows we got busy cleaning groceries and making sure we stayed in our house, but anyway I had to really transition to the practice and getting people working remotely, and there's a team of about five people. Anyway, eventually I got back to her retirement and basically I've created what I call a retirement readiness or retirement well-being platform where women can come to her retirement and get educated, because I feel education is so very important. That's why I say, when you know more, you'll have more and you'll live more. That's what I say right on the website. Thank you, because it's so important that we take responsibility to be students and stewards of our life and our money and our retirement. So it's right now. It's an educational slash, readiness platform, well-being platform.

Lynn: 7:41

I have a software part of the company where I take people through their complete financial inventory. The software identifies some gaps and risks and opportunities. There's an e-learning platform. There's a planning platform where you can get educated about what is a retirement plan, because so many people think a 401k is a retirement plan. It is a plan, but it's not your plan. So, yeah, there's a lot of functionality within that platform that I've created over the course of four years and I keep adding to it. And, yeah, I really enjoy coaching women through that readiness process. And then I am not licensed, so I am more of a personal financial coach slash retirement to work and what I do is I connect women up to the resources they might need, whether they need investment help or insurance or Medicare long-term care, whatever they need from the financial perspective. And then the non-financial perspective, because I believe for women, a better retirement isn't just about money, it's about health, wealth and happiness. So I have life coaches and fitness and nutrition coaches that I can connect women up to as well.

Ellen: 8:54

Like a one-stop shop. I love it.

Tish: 8:57

Yeah, it sounds amazing, and what I love is it's different for women than men, and I did read somewhere just recently that 74% of women do not have a retirement plan and, like you said, they're not meaning a 401k or a pension, it's the plan itself of all the different income streams, or where they're going to live and what their expenses are going to be. So I think it's so great for our listeners that we have you here today to talk about this. The other stat because Tisha and I love stats. It's something we love to put out there the poverty rate for all women over 65 and older is almost 11%, but for single women in that age group it is 20%, and so those numbers shocked me and really make me think that, as women, we really need to get educated, just like what you said.

Lynn: 9:58

Absolutely. I mean, 80% of women die single. So, if you like, stats, 80% of women die single 59,. The average age of a widow is 59, which is another shocking number to a lot of people.

Lynn: 10:13

The gray divorce rate is three times the rate of other divorce rates in the country. So I want women to understand that they have these opportunities and when they get educated about them, they'll make informed, better informed decisions and they'll have better conversations with people and they'll hopefully never be sold anything again. They'll make an informed buying decision in their best interest.

Tish: 10:41

You know, then I just teach one thing I find that a lot of women have fear about this right. Do you find that women have some fear around, like either knowing there's not enough, or feeling there's not enough right, or unprepared?

Lynn: 10:57

Yeah, I mean I would say that fear is the number one thing that I hear from women. My mom was a retired teacher. She had a pension and she was like, oh, I don't want to be a bag lady and I don't want to be a burden on my kids. So I have this anti-bag lady presentation that I do and it's kind of a syndrome. Many, many women have this syndrome and it's not affluent based. So even affluent women still fear running out of money and it causes so much stress. So it's actually one of the things that I say again on my home page is this platform is to help you have no fear, no stress, no overwhelm, no judgment, no BS. As I like to say no stress, no BS, because that's the first thing I hear women say, regardless of how they're employed, their job, where they're at, they're scared. And I wake up sometimes scared and I'm hopefully doing the right things, but I'm on the journey also because I'm in my 50s and it's something that we hope to minimize, right, because fear is not good for us.

Ellen: 12:14

Well, I love how you say you address so many different issues for women. Today I want to really kind of specifically talk about this one aspect of social security benefits that I think so many people know nothing about. Right, it's really not talked about a ton and that's how you can qualify under your ex-spouse to receive benefits, especially if they were a considerably higher earner. Can you talk about what are some of those criteria to qualify for that benefit and how that works?

Lynn: 12:50

Yeah, and I do want to add that social security represents 30% to 50% of most people's guaranteed income sources, so it's not something to be taken lightly. I educate on social security a lot. I have 92,000 followers on TikTok and definitely social security are my most popular videos and people just aren't informed. The average American gets a D on a social security quiz. So, yeah, people just kind of they don't understand. And then when, if you're single and you plan to retire and you're not going to work, and it's pretty clear, then the decision is pretty straightforward. But married, divorced, widowed, lots of extra things to consider and a lot of women don't understand all of the rules around ex-spousal or they think, oh, he got remarried. I can't claim.

Lynn: 13:43

So, if you are divorced you have to have been married. One criteria is 10 years, so you have to have been married at least 10 years. That's one qualification. Also, another one is that a lot of people think well, I can take my own plus an X or current spouse or survivor benefit, but you technically the way it works. Well, I'll say how. I'll explain how it works technically after.

Lynn: 14:10

But basically what happens is they look at 100% of your benefit versus up to 50% of your ex-spouse's benefit. And why I say up to is because if you claim your ex-spouse will benefit at 62, let's just assume that your benefit was $1,000 at 62. Well, your ex-spouse's full retirement benefit, let's say, is $3,000. You wouldn't get 1,500. Until your full retirement age you would get less. You only get 70% of that at 62.

Lynn: 14:47

But when you apply they're going to say, okay, is 100% of your benefit greater than 50% of your ex-spouse's full retirement? And if his benefit is greater, then you can qualify, if you meet the other criteria, to take that benefit, to take your expulsal benefit. But what happens is social security pays yours first and then they top it off. So in this case, let's say you were full retirement age, you'd get the 1,000 of your own, and then they would top it off with the 500. So you'd get the 1,500, which would represent 50% of your ex-spouse's. It's a little complicated and I don't always like explain it that way to people because they're like huh, you know, you just say, well, you're 50% of your ex-spouse's, but technically they pay you plus, they top it off with the additional benefit amount.

Tish: 15:41

I think, Lynn, that represents something that is confusing for a lot of people, and I think what's good to me is to hear it a few times right to really understand it. And then again this goes back to this planning piece, right Before it's right there, right, you know, right there in your face a month or two away is to would you advise women to kind of run the scenarios on this, or to go to social security, Like, how do you advise people who think they could have this benefit option?

Lynn: 16:17

Yeah, I wanna address that. But I also wanna tell women that for ex-spousal benefits you cannot remarry. Okay, once you remarry, your ex-spousal benefits end. And so a lot of people are like, well, that's not fair. But then social security looks at it and says, well, you know, if you are married longer to your new spouse, you can claim on that spouse. So that's another issue. And then there's a whole bunch of other extenuating circumstances. But yeah, I really really encourage people women to do what's called a retirement income projection well before they retire At least five years, sometimes 10 years. A couple reasons for that, specific to social security. One is if you wait until three months because technically you apply three months before you want to apply, what happens is what if there's a mistake on your social security statement?

Lynn: 17:11

So this is gonna give you a chance and I encourage people to sign up for a social security account as soon as they can at ssagov and look at your social security statement and make sure it's correct. The second thing is you need to plan Like if you run that retirement income projection, as scared or as painful as it might be. It's kind of like looking at the monster under your bed. It's like, oh, I don't wanna look cause it's scary. But once you look and you know what that income sources from social security along with your other income sources you're gonna know what you have. And number two is, if you have a gap, cause many, many people have a gap between the projected expenses they're gonna have in retirement and their guaranteed income sources. It's just knowing your cash flow. That's what cash flow is expenses income. So you gotta know your cash flow.

Lynn: 18:06

Many people have a gap between those guaranteed income sources like social security, like a pension if you're lucky to have one an annuity, life insurance, a reverse mortgage those are what's considered immincible bonds. Those are all considered guaranteed income sources. Many people have a gap, but they can fill it. A lot of people in today's world fill it with 401K savings or IRAs or inheritance or rental income or many, many women are continuing to work in retirement, which can impact your social security, which is another issue to consider when you're going to claim. But once you do this retirement income projection, if you've done it the proper way, with the right help, they're going to be able to advise you on when you should claim social security.

Lynn: 18:53

So don't just assume the 62 is the right age, because if you claim early, whether it's your benefit, your ex-spouse's benefit you're getting less. You're getting a lot less than if you waited till full retirement age or if you waited till 70, if you wait till 70, you're getting 124% of whatever benefit you're eligible for. At full retirement age you're getting 100%. At 62, you're getting 70%. So it's a lot of guaranteed income to leave on the table. If you claim early, it's not to say it might not be the right decision for you. There's a lot of factors that go into it and that's why I have a decision tree that helps people answer some questions to help them get to the right decision for them. But it's definitely, most definitely, integrating all your income sources to make the best social security decision for you, because you just never know what's gonna end up with the data telling you what looks best. A lot of it's guests. Right, if we knew how long we're going to live. If we knew we would-.

Tish: 19:58

It's gonna make it so much easier, right, how the market was going to perform, right, what kind of expenses we've had. What I'm hearing is it depends, right, and I love that answer and I hate that answer on many things. But that's the beauty of using this decision tree that you have or some other way to really look and plan right and to understand all of the different options, the different levers that you have to pull and when and I think this is what I think a lot of women, a lot of us in this age group it's the fear. But also, if, then what, like? What are we going to do? And they keep raising. It feels like they keep raising this full retirement age on us too, right?

Lynn: 20:48

Yeah, I mean they may end up raising it. I mean there's clearly has to be some changes in the social security system because when social security first started it was for everyone, every one person paying. There's 45 people paying into every person retiring. Now it's one to two, right so, and this is 11,000 people turning 65 years old every day. So we are an aging society that's going to put pressure, additional pressure, on the social security system.

Lynn: 21:18

One thing that I wanted to point out, because I do get this about expels with social security. I'll get women on TikTok that says, oh, my husband put that in the divorce agreement that I can't collect on his social security, and my response to that is it cannot be agreed away in a divorce agreement. And if you wanna dot your eyes and cross your T's and you wanna go back to whoever put that together and say you're wrong, take it out. You could spend your time doing that. But if you go claim social security, your ex-spouse is never going to know. They're not informed. So just advocate for yourself and go claim and see if you qualify.

Ellen: 21:57

And here's the thing if you have a good relationship with your ex-spouse, you have kids involved or whatever you I think people need to understand you are not taking any money away from them, or they're new spouse, right? So it doesn't impact what the new spouse would have. It doesn't impact what they can draw. This is strictly what you're entitled to in your benefits and I think that's an important key as well.

Lynn: 22:23

Absolutely. I'm glad you brought that out, tish, because I think that goes back to people scoring a D on social security. The wife might have watched a video or learned it, and then you got this ex-spouse maybe it's an emotionally charged divorce and he's like no, that's not what Sal at the shop said, or whatever.

Tish: 22:43

Wow.

Lynn: 22:45

Yeah, so it's I'm. Knowledge is power and my mission is to make sure that women I had a woman actually the other day on TikTok. She was like oh my God, I don't even remember what it was, but she's like I wish I knew this 10 years ago and I was like, well, if you know, a younger woman like you can all help each other.

Lynn: 23:06

You can pass this information on to a younger woman who might be in your same situation, so that she doesn't get to, whatever age you are, and say, oh my goodness, I wish I knew this 10 years ago.

Ellen: 23:18

Lynn, let me ask you this question With an ex. If you start to draw on your ex-spouse, can you later switch, like when you hit an age where you can get more of your own? Can you switch over to yours later?

Lynn: 23:34

No. Once you claim on your ex-spouse, you're locked in.

Ellen: 23:36

You're locked in, okay.

Tish: 23:40

I see. So really, the primary reason to do that is if your ex-spouse made a lot more money than you like, if their benefit is bigger. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I see. I guess I thought that maybe I could from 62 to my full retirement age pull on my ex-spouse and then roll over to mine at full retirement age At 100%, yeah, at 120% or whatever we were just talking about. If I made it to 70, right, but we're saying that is not the case, right? You lock into one or the other.

Lynn: 24:15

Yeah, with survivor benefit, you can do that. Yeah, so as a widow, you can do that.

Tish: 24:21

I see and I think you answered this before, but I just want to bring it up again If your ex-spouse is deceased, does that change the benefits in any way? I know you just said for a current spouse they have this option. What about for a deceased spouse?

Lynn: 24:39

Yeah, so if your ex-spouse passes away and you're unmarried, yes, so you could switch over to survivor benefit, absolutely, and a survivor benefit at 100%. Yes, that's 100%, at full retirement age. Okay, but it is reduced if you take it at 62. And also, the whole work question comes into play. Right, because if you are working, your social security, if you make more than $22,240,000 a year in 2024, social security reduces your benefit $1 for every $2 you earn. So that's why that decision tree is are you going to?

Lynn: 25:18

continue to work is very important factor. You know, for people that need the money, then as long as you stay under that window and that's earned income, people get confused because they're like, well, what if I take money out of my 401K, that's not earned income, so it's only income from working, so you can pull the money out of your 401K to supplement your income and it has no impact on your social security. And also, people don't realize that social security is also taxed. So for certain income, you know, I would say higher income earnings tax planning is very important because with tax planning you can put your money before retirement into some different types of tax, different types of tax accounts that don't have an impact on social security, on your Medicare premiums. So this is some interesting tax planning strategies that some women can take advantage of that won't impact social security.

Tish: 26:14

Lynn, could you repeat that number that you can make of earned income Yep $22,240.

Ellen: 26:22

Okay, awesome, doesn't that?

Lynn: 26:26

change at 67? Yeah, so that's up until full retirement age. After full retirement age, you can make as much money as you want, which is cool, you know. In the closer I get to 60s, I'm like that's not that old.

Tish: 26:40

It's not. I mean it's true as we start being in our late 50s and looking towards 60. It seems a lot younger and more youthful than our parents, that's for sure.

Ellen: 26:52

Absolutely. I think you have to ask yourself a lot of tough questions in when you get into this mode of when do you start drawing? And some of these tough questions have to do with your level of health, right, absolutely. If you're not very healthy, if you have some type of you know element that is going to shorten your life considerably, that's going to impact, and those are some hard things to look at, for sure.

Lynn: 27:21

Yeah, because you really have to live to about 77,. I think is the first crossover point where if you don't think you're going to live past 77, then you may want to claim your Social Security sooner than waiting. But again, that's why the numbers are part of the equation. The other part of the equation is how long do I think I'll live? You know what are my other income sources? So it's a part of this, unfortunately, is a guessing game, right?

Lynn: 27:52

There are some longevity calculators that have given people access to, if people want to try to look at that. And you know, I know we talked about some tips for women, but I always say to women longevity is great, it's a blessing and a curse, right, because women live longer than men. But in order to enjoy our retirement more, we have to focus on our health, because 80 to 90% of our health is within our control. 10 to 20% is genetics. So we have a large control, a large amount of control over our health. And so when I work with women, coach them, mentor them, whatever you want to call it I talk about health, wealth and happiness and I say if you plan to work beyond 62, you don't plan, you know, maybe you're going to leave your career and start a business or whatever you want to do. You really need to prioritize your health, because so many people plan to continue to work in retirement and they actually don't, and a lot of the reasons is because of health. So, yeah, we have a lot that we're trying to do here, but if you can keep your mental and physical health one, you're going to pay less in health insurance, which could be a whole nother podcast. You know you're going to enjoy your retirement and your grandkids and all those things you dreamed about doing, and a lot of that, as the numbers show, is in our control.

Lynn: 29:24

So we try to focus on what we can control and then we take best data based decisions on the things that we're not sure we can control and the other things like economics and you know political stuff. We try to protect ourselves from those things as much as possible. So, market volatility you know, if you're concerned about market volatility, take your money not all of it, but take a big chunk of your money out of the stock market and buy an annuity, buy yourself a guaranteed paycheck in retirement if you're worried about that kind of risk. So there's ways to protect yourself from those risks. But you know social security is an income. You know income or inflation protected annuity at the end of the day it goes up every year that you wait drawing it and once you claim it you get a cost of living increase. That's pretty much neck and neck historically with inflation. So yeah, it's inflation protected annuity basically at the end of the day, and it goes up the longer you wait to claim it. So it's yeah. Now lots of decisions.

Ellen: 30:28

So when do we start all this? What is the timeline look like to apply? When can we go in with social security and get these questions, or should someone deal with somebody like you to get all that information before even going in?

Lynn: 30:46

Yeah, so when people take, I have a masterclass that I do on retirement readiness and one of the homework assignments in the class is to go set up your account on ssagov and see what you have. Check your statement, make sure it looks copacetic with your work history, check it all out and see what your benefit amount is, because in my platform you're going to have to fill in your social security if you have access to it. I mean, you know some like teachers and and other workers that work for state State organizations might not have access to social security at all or just a small amount of social security, but you have to fill in if you have a social security income stream in the platform. So it is part of my process is women have to do it. So my whole thing is you know, rather than trying to guess what all these things are, work with me and I will give you the checklist of all the things you have to do. But, yeah, I would say you know five to 10 years out at least, and then you apply for social security about three months before before your your claiming age and yeah, that's pretty much it. I mean, if you're, if you're claiming survivor benefits, you have to go in person because you have to bring some documents with you. I've been told that you can claim ex spouse over the phone as long as you have date of marriage, date of divorce and you have some documents if they need them.

Lynn: 32:18

So you know, I've heard mixed things about that. I think sometimes with social security, like any government organization, it kind of depends on the person you get on the other end of the phone, unfortunately, or in the local office. You know this is good and bad in every profession. So I always tell women, you know, if it, if it doesn't jive with what you've learned, call, call back or go to the local office and then never take. You know I've had women go but they just told me like no, and I, you know I hung up and whatever I was like well, should they explain why you're not going to get the benefit? Like you need it in writing? They need to show you the rule, because some of the things I've heard I'm like that doesn't even make any sense. I've never even heard of that. Like, just, I get a lot of comments.

Tish: 33:09

You know, I think advocating for yourself being informed, this whole idea of in your 50s, right as you're approaching, planning and educating, is so important. It's really imperative, and the idea of sticking your head in the sand, so to speak, is just. All of us women have to get out of that mindset. If we're in it right, absolutely get out of it. And I know the one thing I've heard a lot too is that you know the thing you can do is lower your expenses to if there's that gap, and I know a number of people who have roommates right or have moved. I think a lot of people move in retirement to go to states that have no state income tax or you know the cost of living and the housing is less, and so I think it's important to just talk about those things too, right? It's like that closing that gap, lynn, like you said, can have so many different parameters to it. Yeah, housing.

Lynn: 34:15

Housing is probably number one expense and so I do talk to people like one of the questions I ask is do you have a plan for where you're going to live? What are your housing costs? As far as social security, there still are 10. I keep losing track because they keep changing it, but like this, 10 or 11 states that tax social security also, so you could be federally taxed and state taxed depending on where you live. But if you're open, you know, even living abroad, you know I just I'm all about like medical tourism right now, because I've been looking into some silly little things I have going on and I'm like why am I going to spend $2,000 on a TMJ mouth guard when I could like go do medical tourism, go on vacation and get some for like $500 somewhere?

Ellen: 34:59

I love it.

Lynn: 35:00

But there are ways, you know, if you're open and somewhat flexible. Unfortunately, you know a lot of moms that are retired want to be grandmoms, so they have to live where their kids live and sometimes that's might not be the same place. That's good for retirees like Tennessee is a great state, but you know, I have three kids and if when they have kids, I'm probably not going to live too far away from them. But yeah, I mean there's. There's a Facebook group called retiring on a shoestring and it's an interesting Facebook group because they share a lot of tips and ways to live more frugally. More, if you're retiring on a shoestring, how to do it more frugally. One thing I know I think I said the wrong amount for the Social Security in comments 22, 320, trying to keep all these numbers straight.

Lynn: 35:54

Sometimes it's like that, it's like the 58 year old brain cramp and it's like that's why I have my cheat sheet.

Ellen: 36:01

But it can change. It can change from year to year. So somebody needs to understand. Like you know, the age could go up, the amount can go up, could go down. You know a lot of changes can happen, one of the big considerations. So say someone ops at 62 years old to start drawing Social Security benefits, can they also draw Medicare if they draw their benefits early?

Lynn: 36:24

No, medicare doesn't kick in until 65. So that's one of the decision tree questions is do you have medical coverage for those three years? Because so many people it's. It's a really weird system. I have no idea why it's set up like that, because you pay for your Medicare out of your Social Security. But, yeah, you need a plan to cover that gap, whether it's you know, through, you know, working at Starbucks I know they provide benefits because I saw the sign the other day when I went in there. Or you know, through the affordable care, or through a spouse, you know, whatever it might be. Or maybe you can negotiate with your full time employer to keep your benefits for a few years. Or, you know, in some cases you can't. You can't retire at 62 because you don't have the savings to fund that gap. I have a friend who's got the fund, you know, to pay for the gap between 62 and 65. But yeah, so that's a that's an issue for sure.

Ellen: 37:29

Yeah. And a part time job isn't always going to have that benefit. You know, if you're capped with the 22,000 and change and income, the income it comes from, if it's part time, may not have that benefit. So that's another big consideration for sure.

Lynn: 37:46

Yeah, I have one other question. I get a lot on expousal benefits is can I I'm older, let's say, you know, I get older than my spouse Can I claim when I turn 62? And so your spouse doesn't have to be claiming in order for you to claim, but he he in this case he, because we're talking about women in this case he has to be 62, but he doesn't have to be claiming as long as you've been divorced for two years. So a lot of people don't know that as long as or you know, they just don't they don't know that they can claim. They think they have to wait until the husband, or the ex-husband in this case is claiming. But you can claim as long as you've been divorced for two years and he's at least 62. So these little ins and outs.

Ellen: 38:36

Yeah.

Lynn: 38:36

That's why I created a social security kit with all the, with the cheat sheets and an E class and the decision tree, and just it's. It's a kit that I created to help women get educated and have the information at their fingertips, versus, you know, going down the Google rabbit hole or trying to find it. Social security website has all this information too. Yeah, it's just you know, taking the time to comb through it.

Tish: 39:00

Yeah, you know, the other thing we didn't talk about and I just want to put this out here too is that I am in the tech industry. There have been a lot of layoffs. I think there is a lot of ageism and I think sometimes people can't stay working as long as they'd like in that career that they always thought they could. I always thought it was like a linear. Oh, I can work to 66 making this amount doing this kind of job. But I see a lot of that happening where people are almost like forced to retire in a way. Lynn, do you have a kind of a point of view on that?

Lynn: 39:36

Yeah, unfortunately. I mean, I think we're kind of forging new territory here, especially for the people turning 65, because I think eventually corporations aren't going to be able to be agist. They're just not going to have the workforce. So they're going to have to understand the value that an older workforce brings an experienced workforce, and it's going to change when that will change. I mean, I think some companies are starting to change it. They're starting to retain. I work with people who are saying my company wants to retain me because I have the skills and they want me to train the younger guys or gals. So I think we're starting to see a little of that.

Lynn: 40:20

There's a huge initiative that I see on ageism and anti-ageism in the workplace and lots of people out there advocating for anti-ageism. But yeah, it really stinks if you're in that situation. So what I like to talk to women about is what are some other things that you can put in place before that might happen to you? Think about some training or some other areas that you could earn an income if that happens to you. So be prepared. Preparation is always a wonderful thing.

Lynn: 40:58

So if you can try to be prepared, think ahead. It's hard for people to think ahead because we're so present, focused. But yeah, if you can try to say, you know what? I could end up laid off, I could end up a widow, I could end up divorced. I need to be prepared for these things that could happen to me. And so the working one is one or be on the lookout for other opportunities, or get out there and network. If you've never networked before, just have that plan B should the SHIT hit the fan with your work and you find yourself 65 and unable to stay in your industry. I talked to the woman who that actually happened to, and she was in a very, very niche area in nursing, and she was just like they're just replacing all of us with really young women, and so I said you know what? I think you could probably use a coach, someone that can help you think through all your skillset to see how you can reinvent yourself career-wise, because she really didn't want to stop at 60. You are.

Lynn: 42:18

Not to think about as far as that goes.

Ellen: 42:21

So I just want our listeners to kind of understand at this point these benefits, retirement and social security. It can be all be so complex and complicated whether to draw on your own benefits or use your ex-spouse, what age you should start to elect to start drawing on those funds. So I would encourage our listeners to really explore all their options as early on as possible. Like Lynn was saying, and you know, consider setting up an appointment with Social Security Administration. Really seek someone out, like Lynn, who has all these resources and tools and courses and packets that can help you in this financial planning and just so you're educated going into this, Right, and I'm just going to add do not be afraid.

Tish: 43:13

I think that that is one of the big messages that I'm taking away from today as well, and I know we'll put links in our show notes to Lynn and her master class and some of her other resources. But before we go today, lynn, we'd love to ask you our guests love this what is your superpower?

Lynn: 43:34

Well, it's funny. You all mentioned that. I actually should have that in my background because I have this caricature of myself as a superhero, with her across the chest, because I love this thing that I trademark to be the her and hero. So you know, if you just have this mantra that you repeat to yourself when you're scared, I suffered from anxiety, which is fear, and you know, I have these mantras that I just repeat to myself when I'm scared of absolutely nothing. So I think you know whatever we can do to establish, you know, that mantra, whether it's the her and hero, I'm the her and hero, whatever it might be. I think that that is something that people can do. But I think, in terms of my superpower is, I would probably have to say that it's my humor, my mom.

Lynn: 44:26

I inherited a sense of humor from my mom and she was like the most optimistic person in the world. She was diagnosed with ovarian cancer and they said she was going to get chemo. And you know, when I'd go to pick her up, she was like, oh goody, it's chemo day and I'm like who's that? But she was. So she loved all her nurses and the people there and you know, I don't know if it was because it happened during COVID and it was just people. But she was like the most optimistic person and I believe I've inherited her optimism and sense of humor and I think that that can help fear because, I don't know, we take life so seriously and it goes by like that. So we just have to find the joy and the sense of humor and you know whether, whether we're looking at those finances or you know, in a tough situation, we always try to find the sense of humor in that. So I think that's probably my superpower and I like to make people laugh.

Tish: 45:29

So I love it. Thank you for sharing.

Ellen: 45:33

Yeah, I love that. Well, before we were kind of wrapping up here, right, I'd love to give a shout out to some of our newer listeners to the podcast from Lakeland, florida, from Santan Valley, arizona, and from Silver Spring, maryland. Welcome, thank you for joining us. And remember, ladies, of all the episodes, this may be the most important one to share with other women in your life and they could be younger because, like Lynn was saying, the earlier we start this planning, the earlier we know what's going on, the better situation we're going to be in going forward. So definitely share, share, share this episode with any ladies you think need to hear this message.

Tish: 46:19

That's right, tish. Okay, ladies, get informed now, spread the word, give yourself time to get prepared and enjoy retirement. Lynn, thank you so much for joining us today and yes, till next week midlifeers.