Breaking Free from a Rut: Regain Motivation and Embrace Joy - Ep 56

Are you feeling stuck in a rut? Wondering how to break free and get back on track? Join us as we reveal the signs of being in a rut and share strategies to help you regain your motivation and joy.

In this heartfelt conversation, we discuss four common indicators that you're stuck in a rut: negative self-talk, feeling overwhelmed by change, procrastination, and a lack of motivation. We also explore the power of micro goals, micro joys, and spending time in nature to help you break free. Don't miss our candid chat about the importance of self-care, chronic stress management, and why there's no shame in seeking professional help if you're concerned that your rut might be something more serious.

Discover the impact of small victories and the incredible difference a good friend can make in overcoming a rut. We'll also share some of our favorite self-care practices, like taking a "rockstar shower" and gratitude journaling, to help you manage chronic stress and get out of that rut. So, let's get unstuck and embrace a more joyful, motivated life together!

Transcript

Tish: 0:22

A rut is defined as a habit or a pattern of behavior that has become dull and unproductive, but it is also one that is so hard to change, and today we are going to talk about how to identify when we are in a rut and, more importantly, how do we break out of a rut.

Ellen: 0:45

Well, isn't that the biggest question? Tish, a midlife rut? Yes, You know right, We all go into ruts now and then, and you know, different things could really be the cause. And for me, I know I'm in a rut when I feel like I'm kind of on autopilot, When I'm hibernating at home. That's another way. I know I'm in a rut And when I'm doing things like mindlessly scrolling, eating like shit, if I could put it that way not focusing on my sleep, it becomes a snowball for me.

Tish: 1:20

Yeah, Yeah, I start visiting. you know those two very bad men, Ben and Jerry.

Ellen: 1:28

I thought you were going to say your friends tick and talk. Your friends tick and talk.

Tish: 1:33

No, I love me some Ben and Jerry.

Tish: 1:34

I'm just saying maybe too much of Ben and Jerry, all right. Well, recently I personally have been going through a bunch of changes and I was recovering from this big medical emergency that I went through and I find that, like this post trauma, that I discovered that I was deep into this rut and I had gotten out of my regular routine of work and my regular activities And while I needed and my body needed the rest and just to lay back for a few weeks, coming out of it has left me in this deep rut And, ellen, all I want to do is shake myself out of it, but it's hard.

Ellen: 2:18

Yes, No, you know what It is hard and tish. I became concerned for you and I know you were concerned after your health issue. Even with the rest, it didn't feel like rest and healing anymore for you. No, I noticed you weren't playing pickleball you weren't going out with friends.

Ellen: 2:38

you were turning down invitations. You know all the things you usually love to do, so I was really happy when you brought this topic up and to the table for us to do a podcast on, because you know what? Self-awareness, as we say, is always the first step to making a change. So today we're going to share four signs that you may be stuck or you might be in a rut, and how we can get unstuck, because one time or another, all of us find ourselves here. But before we get to this exciting topic, let's take a few minutes to talk about our obsessions. What do you got for me this week, tish?

Tish: 3:19

You know I love our obsessions. So, Ellen, I don't know if you wear any of these summer hats, these big straw summer hats, right?

Ellen: 3:28

Yeah, I do, Are you okay? I do totally.

Tish: 3:31

So what do you do when you go out and you got your toad on you and you have the hat, but you go in someplace and what are you supposed to do with this hat, right, yeah? So I found the coolest hat clips that you can attach it to your tote bag So when you're ready to take it off it's not going to get left or smushed around and it's really cute little leather and it's a magnetic, so it's not going to mess up the brow of your hat. But it's a hat clip for summer straw hats and you look kind of chic and polished walking around with it.

Ellen: 4:06

I love that I have not seen these, but what a great idea. I never know what to do with my hat and it does usually get smushed or left behind.

Tish: 4:15

I've done that too.

Ellen: 4:16

Left and behind.

Tish: 4:18

So that's my little summer obsession right now. But what about you, Ellen? What's your obsession?

Ellen: 4:23

Well, first, i have to say, a great hat and French sunscreen, and you've got it going on right For the summer, so I am going to run out and buy one of these hat clips. Well, i know that you have Silver City Pink as your signature lip color.

Tish: 4:40

Yes.

Ellen: 4:41

I know we've talked about it before and my signature lip color is Clinique Black Honey, the color that looks good on everyone. But this weekend a friend gave me the Black Honey lip gloss and it's a pop plush Black Honey lip gloss And in the summer it's so nice. It's a little thicker, you know, your lips can get dry, being out in the sun, just outside hiking, and I'm just going to give another push for Black Honey. They say it's the perfect blend of blue, red and yellow that looks good on any skin tone And I have to say I agree.

Tish: 5:19

Love it, love it. I'll have to try that one, so it's shiny right.

Ellen: 5:23

Yeah, yeah, i've got it on. What do you think?

Tish: 5:26

Loving it, we can see each other We do these things every single time We can see each other, but it's nice.

Ellen: 5:33

All right, so we will post our weekly obsessions on our website and in the show notes, but you know what does a rut or being stuck look like, and how do you know if you're in one? I think sometimes you're feeling tired, you're feeling run down even when you wake up and you lack the usual excitement for activities and you're avoiding social situations like we talked about before. And I think if you can't remember the last time you felt joyful or excited for life, then if these sound familiar, i think you're in a rut or you're just stuck. What do you think, tish?

Tish: 6:13

You know exactly, and I want to caution people here too I think there's a fine line between being in a rut and being in a mild depression, but both of them need to be addressed because they're both going to impact your life, right? So depression, i think, can very easily be mistaken for being in a rut, right? So if you're not sure, seek some professional advice. Talk to a health therapist, talk to your doctor. If it's gone beyond, just like that blasé feeling, it may be something that you need some additional help for, and certainly nothing wrong with that, right.

Ellen: 6:57

That's right. So there are very pro-therapy here on this podcast and I agree And it's really important that we address all our mental health issues, no matter what they are. But you know, doing some research for this topic, i read an article by Masterclass, that online platform where you can take classes from experts in like almost any topic cooking to psychology And they had a really great article on getting stuck and they had four ways. You know, if you're in a rut, lack of inspiration, so lack of motivation for hobbies and passions tish, not playing pickleball, i think, right there Right, yes, negative thoughts right.

Ellen: 7:43

If you feel like you're not progressing, you could engage in negative self-talk. I know women are very prone to this, but this is definitely a sign You need to complete tasks and I know you mentioned this to me. It's like you didn't even want to do the laundry, right?

Tish: 7:59

Yeah, those, those, those chores just pile up and it becomes an additional burden, an additional Obstacle for getting out of those rats. And what's? what's the fourth one?

Ellen: 8:11

It's resistant to change. Like you know you need to change. You're saying things like oh, i can't get ahead of myself, or you know what, i really need to change this, but you, just you can't do it. It feels overwhelming.

Tish: 8:25

You know what I, my mother, used to call that? stop wallowing in it. It's like. It's like we're Savoring the rut or something like that, right, so we don't want anyone to be Savoring and wallowing in their ruts or marinating in it.

Ellen: 8:41

Marinate, i like that. I like that.

Tish: 8:44

So no marinating in a rut, you get, you get a moment and then it's time to move on. So I think those are great indicators. You know all of us and and I want everyone to understand, there's nothing. There's nothing wrong with you. All of us are going to find ourselves in a rut at some time or another, right, and so we just wanted to look at what are some tips to get ourselves out of it. Yeah, now again, i have to say, if you're concerned in any way, that it's a little bit more than being in a rut. There's absolutely no shame in saying I need help. You know, ellen, i was really taken about in a great way. Um, but I don't know if you had a chance to hear the former First lady, michelle Obama, talk about her personal struggles with mild depression.

Ellen: 9:33

You know I did. I adore her and I read her book and again, so proactive and so So vulnerable, putting herself out there, i feel like she has just really shown Everyone around the world that it's okay to have struggles and she's a strong, successful, dynamic, beautiful woman Just being open right. Her openness is really to help other people feel okay about it too, and you know I've been to therapy and family therapy We've talked about this on the podcast Yes, in the past. I think it's a great way to address things and to grow here at midlife, and this is a time with a lot of major changes that can definitely impact us.

Tish: 10:23

You know exactly whether it's a rut or more. You know. The first step is admitting to yourself That something is going on. Okay, like you said, you started noticing stuff about me, but you hadn't said anything yet. Yeah, which is fine. You know it's. It's. We need to have allowed the people around us to kind of get out of things, but You want to start talking about it and then Seek out some help, right? so the message is you don't have to stay in these bad feelings. If you feel you are in a rut, there are things that you can do, and so we're going to be here to encourage each of you, along with me. That's right. Try to get out of this rut together, okay.

Ellen: 11:09

Yeah, yeah, and I mean first things first. Evaluate the situation, the first step of getting out of anything or making any changes, to understand how you got here, why are you here in the first place, notice the signs and figure out what area of your life is causing This, um, and I think that's a really great place to start. You know I love my morning shows Good morning America and the today's show, so dr Fornari on gma Good morning America. You know they shared that although the lifetime rate of depression is about one in five nationally, generally 10% of the us Population experience is a depressive episode lasting More than two weeks.

Tish: 11:55

Wow, you know that that's a huge statistic, right? So, again, if you feel You know, if you feel isolated and alone in in the rut or a mild depression, see that that statistic alone just tells you there's a lot of people struggling. So stressors that may contribute to the development of an episode of depression or a rut, Um can include things like financial hardships, illness, loss And, as there's so many stresses in life, like life right now is just stressful, right So that any of these things can bring this on.

Ellen: 12:32

Of course, and I think for you it was illness, right, and yeah, i think we feel really vulnerable As middle-aged women when we have a medical issue, so I think that it's it's really important to know these can come from many different places, um, so again I'm going to cite a source. Psychology today says the closest disorder to a rut is the DS. In the DSM is um dys themia, which is just a mild, chronic cousin of depression, which is just low energy, low mood, loss of interest and loss of pleasure, and I think that kind of really does Say what a rut is to me. Um, yeah, right, exactly, the reason we need to take it seriously is we don't want to leave it going. We don't want it to go on and on when we can take action.

Ellen: 13:28

And the other thing I think is really important is to practice self-care and well-being when I find myself there. And I like this idea tish, i read about this idea of micro goals And I also have heard of micro joys, these two things, you know. And micro goals, don't try and do a 180 and pull yourself up out of the couch, you know, but just try and do one self-care activity and add one thing to your daily routine at a time. What do you think about this idea of micro goals and micro joys?

Tish: 14:04

You know, i love that idea because what they used to say you know how do you eat an elephant? one bite at a time.

Ellen: 14:11

One bite at a time.

Tish: 14:13

If you try to do it all at once, it's just too overwhelming and you don't move forward, right? So that makes sense to me, allen. Um, so you know, ruts can be creative ruts, yeah, romantic ruts, career ruts. Sometimes it's just mid-life ruts, because you just feel like you have been there for everybody else, but then you don't feel supported. And it doesn't even have to be like a true You don't that you're not supported. It's feelings. We're talking about feelings, feelings of being overwhelmed. So, whatever the kind of rut that there is, there are ways to pull ourselves out of it.

Ellen: 14:55

Well, i'll share one of mine, and I know you know this because, whenever you're here, the first thing we do is get out into nature, put on those hiking shoes And get out there and walk. So, heading outdoors with a friend or a group or by myself and I love to go to lake bontempe That's where we've gone several times, tish, mm-hmm, and just it's in my town Put on some great music on my Spotify and just be in nature and quiet. Right the quietness.

Tish: 15:30

I like that and I like the music aspect of it as well. You know, alan, sometimes, you know, when I'm in a rut, it's hard for me to even think about getting out of bed. You know, sometimes it can be that bad, right? Yeah? So for me, one of the strategies I use is trying to get ready the night before by removing roadblocks that I know are going to trip me up in the morning, you know. So it's something as simple as getting the coffee all ready to go. So, even if the thought of going to the kitchen is like, oh, i don't want to go in there and maybe there was dishes left, so getting all the dishes, getting everything clean, so when I walk in there it's fresh and new, the coffee just pushed the button, it's ready to go. So I know, for me and I've said this so many times my environment really reflects my state of mind. So messy house means I'm struggling.

Ellen: 16:31

Messy mind. Yes, yeah. Well, i really like the idea of taking 10 or 15 minutes at night to just get those dishes done, straighten up, do whatever it is. For me, a lot of times, it's what am I going to wear the next day right, you can have that.

Ellen: 16:50

So I think those are really good things. just to take those few minutes at night And you know, remember when we were in college, tish and I know I did this I had to clean my dorm room before studying for a big test or exam. you know, putting it off, so I started studying more at, like you know, nine or 10 o'clock at night. Did you do that?

Tish: 17:10

You know, I thought it was just like an avoidance thing Yes, but, but. but I think there was some method to our madness. We had to have a clear environment to clear our heads, to open us up for receiving the information.

Ellen: 17:26

Right, It's true, It's true. I think you know a lot of people say their number one recommendation is to clean your bedroom and when you get up every day, make your bed because you've accomplished something as soon as you get up. So I think that is just a great way to remove roadblocks And, as we said, sounds small. These are micro goals, micro victories, micro joys.

Tish: 17:53

I love that idea of micro victories And I think when you're in a rut, every micro victory is a huge leap forward.

Ellen: 18:03

Right, they build, they add up. Yes.

Tish: 18:07

You know, i remember several years ago ironically, i was recovering from another big medical issue Oh man, and a really good friend of mine, melanie, she came over with her daughters, they came with their cleaning buckets and she said we're going to clean your house. And I about died of embarrassment because I was so overwhelmed and so weak And I just and she said, we don't care, this is why we're here. And I got to tell you that when they were done, it was like a burden was lifted off me And it was really the really the start of shaking me out of the rut that I was in at that time. And I can tell you that was one of the best gifts recovering that I could have ever asked for. So I'm going to tell you if, if, if, you have a friend who's going through a difficult time, grab, grab the Lysol and the soft scrub and get on over there because, yeah, fold some laundry, fold some laundry for them, right?

Tish: 19:19

Yes, Yes, it's just something little, yeah, but it was huge for me at the time And it really started me on an emotionally getting out of a bad rut I was in at that time.

Ellen: 19:31

I really like that, i love this. So you know, remember that like a rut can be this dull, unexcited feeling, and one way to kind of shake that up is really changing the scenery. And for me, like I said, that could be a hike in the woods or a drive to Stinson Beach just with my dog for a long walk. It I think what's important here is these don't need to be elaborate, they don't need to include a lot of people, you don't need to feel forced, but changing that scenery will start or change your flow of energy. And you know, i work from home. Sometimes I feel isolated. I just go to a coffee shop downtown and sit outside with my computer, get some vitamin D, a nice cup of coffee and people watch, and just the simple change of scenery can make the difference. Oh, that's.

Tish: 20:21

I like that, Yeah. But you know, sometimes, I think you know, even the thought of getting out of the house for someone is even, you know, too overwhelming.

Ellen: 20:31

Yeah.

Tish: 20:32

And sometimes you know if, if you can just get over that little you know, heap there. Just the best way to get out of our own negative headspace is to stop focusing on ourselves and turn the focus to someone else. Helping someone else can sometimes be the best thing to helping yourself.

Ellen: 21:00

So I so agree there Yeah.

Tish: 21:05

You know, shifting that focus to other people, it can really change things around for you.

Ellen: 21:14

Most definitely, and I think I've always found that when I volunteer or just even help a neighbor, you know it's, it's so easy to just do an act of kindness, pay it forward in some way, it does again. Doesn't have to be big, it's, it's just building. But I know you have a suggestion. If you don't even want to leave the house, but you're in a rut, what do you do?

Tish: 21:40

Tish, but here's the thing If you can focus on just looking better, sometimes it's so easy to stay in that rut when you're in your you know old sweatpants that are stained and torn up and that super comfy oversized t-shirt and stuff like that. But what I'm going to tell you is, you know, get in the bathroom and take what I like to call is a rockstar shower.

Tish: 22:06

I mean you're going to shower like you're going to be going on tour, that you're going to be, you know, like the shower, like when you're getting ready to go to a wedding or some big event, right? So I like the rockstar shower. Rockstar shower, yes, like all the good sense that you have, that you can put all lotions and stuff that you can put all over your body. Go, bring out those lux products that you have that you know, maybe somebody gave you at a holiday and, like some candles in the bathroom, put on some upbeat music, make it like you are going to be going to a photo shoot. That's how I want you to treat yourself at that moment And I'm going to tell you it's going to turn your mood around.

Ellen: 22:49

It's so true I must have 20 face masks and body scrub, like they're all in there, right, including the razor for the legs ladies And just really spending some time on self care And that's kind of some physical self care. I think you know that can really, as you said, make a difference. One of the other ways I know you and I have talked about self care in the past is by gratitude journaling, and I think this is such a great way There's a lot of research around this that you know, starting your day or ending your day By journaling and writing what you're thankful for and what you, you know, can really make such a difference in people's lives And I know, tish, you've been journaling a lot lately, right, Yeah, yeah, i think when you start to journal about gratitude in particular I mean, journaling is fabulous.

Tish: 23:52

When you start to talk about gratitude, it makes you, it forces that focus to be on positive things And it and it has a great trajectory for the rest of your day, right. Then again, getting out of that wallowing is my mother would call it. But I think another great suggestion is, you know, maybe make a coffee date or a lunch date with a friend, that is that you know, is that really supportive friend, the one that's full of laughter, like their laughter is contagious. Yeah, and stay away from your more mellow down, you know Debbie Downer kind of friend. You don't have the energy to lift that person up right now. So seek out that contagious laughter, that one that you can just crack up and be silly with, because that's what you need right now.

Ellen: 24:50

You know, i wholeheartedly agree. And this made me think about a time where my kids heard me laughing so hard they had to come out down into the room where I was And of course I was watching Bridesmaids, i think the funniest laughing movie ever made. So I'm going to say also, you know, you can always put on Bridesmaids or whatever other movie you find to be the funniest movie ever. I think that you're right, nothing beats good, a good, good, good belly lap A laugh, excuse me? Yes, and I do think that sharing with your good friends you know, like when you shared with me, like hey, you know I'm not feeling right here Our communities want to come together and support us. Our communities are friends And I think that's really important, that you know reaching out, whether it's one or many, just to get that support you need.

Ellen: 25:47

And of course, you know, when I was reading in psychology today, they had an interesting analogy that talks as a rut, as like no music, you stop hearing the music and colors are muted, and that faded color feeling is a result of reduced activation in the reward center of the brain. So I think this is really fascinating. We talked about how music tish a little earlier. Yeah, it just be so. Healing and how people's brains react to their favorite music. Researchers found that people's brains got excited right When sometimes when the brains of other people who were in a rut or feeling down they didn't even notice the music was playing. So that's, that's to me was a really interesting kind of analogy, and I do feel like music, again, is one of those things that can take you back to a time, to to a memory, to a location.

Tish: 26:50

Oh, yeah, yeah, I mean, I read that article as well And I think it was a great article. I think I think what really helped me understand that the situation if you have chronic stress, it can wear us out emotionally and it can bring on a whole rut situation for you.

Ellen: 27:16

You know. I think that that is spot on, and the chronic nature of stress can really have devastating consequences on our health here at Midlife if we don't address it. I read a fabulous book called Burnout All About Women at Midlife and the burnout that we're facing from chronic stress. I will put a link to that in our show notes. It's a fabulous resource. Maybe you can tell me why chronic stress is so dangerous. Tish.

Tish: 27:48

First of all, there's no recovery period. right That when you're in this chronic state of stress that there's no chance to come up for air And so you're treading water, you're barely keeping yourself there, right, and you need to head in a different direction. The second thing is this chronic state kind of wears us out, reducing our resources for recovery, just in general. So imagine a rug that is exposed to foot traffic, right, because we all have those rugs in our house?

Tish: 28:26

right, we do, definitely. And it has a pattern over time, over and over and over. So, and then the next thing, you know it can't bounce back, right, because it has this constant fatigue, this constant stress against it, right? Or that little kid that's poking you right With his finger And it's just all day same spot, all day, same spot, right, and then it just takes the tiniest thing and you lose it, right, And it's just so out of proportion to what's happening And this idea of this chronic stress on you, these chronic factors of not being able to breathe and recover and kind of bounce back.

Tish: 29:11

And so, and I think, and last and most dangerous of all is we get used to being in this chronic state, right, yeah, our brains, a world of muted colors, faded music, this constant home that has a lot of happens, of stress, becomes our normal, and it's so normal, in fact, that it doesn't even seem like a big deal anymore. And I think that is the real fear, right, when we feel extreme pain or anger and our bodies are pushed, you know, we become unable to deal with it anymore, right? So when this mild, when this discomfort is mild and persistent, it just becomes so hard to find the motivation to change. If we're getting burned right, we know to pull back. We, pull back, we yank our hand back.

Tish: 30:12

But when the heat is gradual and consistent and then in harming, it's hard for us to know, to pull our finger back, to say ow right, and I think that's the danger of the chronic stress.

Ellen: 30:26

Well, and I think it's cumulative here at midlife, you know, when it's been going on for five, 10, 15, 20 years or more. it's really you're almost numb to it at that point And I really do feel that that burnout can have a big, big impact here. You know, another thing that I read about in psychology today I know you and I have read a lot in that journal preparing for the episode is that spontaneous behavior can lead to new and surprising territory.

Ellen: 31:05

And then it opens the door and escorts us into spaces we haven't had time to imagine. So it's the kind of combination of surprise and novelty. It kind of floods our brain with dopamine. Of course we have to talk about dopamine here which is one of the neurotransmitters, and a dopamine surge makes us excited and curious and adventurous, even for a short time. So going out of your comfort zone, being spontaneous, can really help with that.

Tish: 31:37

You know, the other curious thing about that article that was actually kind of a surprise to me was the connection of autonomy. And the more we have a feeling of autonomy or that we have control over our actions or what's happening in our lives and stuff, the closer we are going to get to getting on of a rut. Yeah, So if you think of these, especially when it comes to work related, you're in a very stressful situation. You don't feel you have control, right. So think about the last time you worked for like a big micro manager kind of personality, right. What did that do to your motivation?

Tish: 32:17

No, it's true, It really zaps it And yeah it sucks the motivation right out of you, right, And it makes you not even want to do more right.

Ellen: 32:30

It's true, and I think it can be in other areas of your life as well. It doesn't just have to be in a work situation, although I think that's a very good one. You know, it's really that feeling of being the captain of your ship and in control of your destiny, and I think a lot of times at midlife we've taken on so much, whether it's still raising our kids, raising our kids, parents, you know, marriages, partners, and I think all of those can play into this here. Yes, it can make all the difference And, as I said, a job is only as good as your manager, and I've had some great ones, and I've had a few micro managers.

Ellen: 33:12

And definitely the ones that give me autonomy were the ones that got the better part of me right.

Tish: 33:20

You could give. There's more to give. There's more to give when you do that. You know I can personally relate to how much happier I am when I feel more spontaneous, and a lot of that has to do with being in control. You know, of my autonomy, and again, it doesn't have to just be work related, it can be your environment. When you feel trapped in something you don't feel, whether it's a relationship, whether it's because of economics, you don't feel you can be as spontaneous, right, and I think for me personally, you know all these chronic weeks of stress had left me in this rut And you know I love some of the suggestions from this article, especially the one that had that talked about having a yes day.

Ellen: 34:14

Yeah, we've talked about this before having a yes day And I liked when they suggested to ask a friend to plan a day together and not tell you in advance what you're going to do. Again, it's the spontaneity for you, It's the surprise and the kind of the feeling that you can be ready for anything.

Tish: 34:34

So you know, here's the thing on. What I want all of our listeners to kind of take away from the episode here today is if finding yourself in a rut can be the result again of this prolonged stress that robs you of this joy. But there are things that you can do to shake yourself out of it And I want people to like really believe that, because I think sometimes when we get in these positions, we don't see the exit door for it.

Ellen: 35:08

I'm going to just say, you know, hiking, getting in nature, gratitude journaling, rockstar shower, pampering, self care, cleaning your environment, having great friends come over and clean your environment. Music right And reaching out to your community to help you.

Tish: 35:32

What did you?

Ellen: 35:33

call that earlier Micro Microjoy, micro victories.

Tish: 35:38

Micro victories. Yes, yes, i like that Micro victories.

Ellen: 35:43

That's right And micro goals. So, as you said, you don't eat an elephant in one bite, so take it a little bit at a time and just leaving everyone with. if the rut has progressed into something more serious, where you feel like it could be depression, talk to your doctor or a mental health professional. we'll leave some resources in our show notes for anyone who's feeling that way. We'll also list the book I suggested on burnout and a couple of other resources that Tish and I looked at to put this episode together. So before we end, tish, what got you out of your rut, if I can ask?

Tish: 36:25

You know, i think I'm. I don't think I'm out of it yet. Okay, i think I am working on it. And again it had to do with some of these. One was talking to you, you know, telling you that I was struggling. I think that was hard to kind of admit to myself, admit to you. And then it was going through kind of the research that we did to do this episode today that I said you know what I don't want to be in this place? I don't, this place doesn't feel good, you know. So what are the steps that I need to take? And I'm starting to do those micro victories myself. Am I completely out of my rut? Not quite yet. Am I on my way there? Absolutely. So I want our listeners to come along with me. If you feel in a rut today, i'm telling you, try a couple micro victories and come out of this rut with me.

Ellen: 37:21

All right, tish, thank you for being so vulnerable and sharing with our listeners about your rut, and I have really enjoyed talking to you today about this.

Tish: 37:34

Till next week midlifers.

Ellen: 37:37

Till next week. Have a great week.